Since we always wait 24-48 hours after a map is released before putting it on our servers let's hear your thoughts on the newest changes in the meanwhile!
Good? Bad? Horribad? F**king fantastic maybe?

Changelog http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.75

vote for 1 hero choice and 1 mode choice each please.

That is, each user is allowed 2 votes. So use one for the mode and 1 for the hero choices

looking forward to hearing the admins response on this thread

Would you care to write a summary of the 53 pages please, remove all irrelevant information and feedback regarding bugs and issues that have now been solved are sorted out, posts made by users who don't and never understood the system, as well as off-topic flame and discussions.

We would both appreciate this greatly.

Original topic:
http://www.dotalicious-gaming.com/index.php/topic,14282.0.html

A longer reply in there by emmeran:

Our feedback:

To create an easier overview this topic will be closed and moved to here:

if i understand it right, win % to promotion will now be calculated inside skill levels, each one separately

Yes exactly

I have a question, when a player plays a game different from his level, will it be counted in his stats?

yes it will. Each game from each tier will be counted for that tiers statistics regardless which tier the user actually belongs to.

Does this mean SL4 players can stack with their SL1 friends in a non-XP related game? Because that was a problem when you wanted to play with lesser friends, you fucked up the XP so SL0 was the way to go, but the game didn't count. Will this still be the same?

Players can play with their friends in lower tiers than the one they belong to. We don't want to restrict users from doing that. What we wanted to do is to have more accurate statistics and player tier designation as well as less "stomping" which is why we are introducing the bash point system along with this change.
There won't be any non exp tier like our current SL0 is with the new system.

If I for example get demoted from sl5 due to a too low win % and get back to sl 4, then play there for a while and get up to sl5 again. Will my sl 5 win % get reset or will I still have a low one? Because if it is too low you would get instant demoted again.

It will still be low and potentially you are in danger of being demoted. but it also depends on the other players in that tier and their statistics on whether you are "more safe" now or not.

I mean if you get promoted into a new skill-level, will you start with "zero games" or will you keep your old win%?

You will start with 0 games for that specific tier.

also how will this start? everyone's stats get reseted? or does the till now gathered mm-game-history select the new skill levels?

Everyone will be assigned into all our tiers according to their previous statistics except for the lowest and higher levels. these 2 tiers players will have to "earn" after the new systems in place. This way less games will be required for players to reach an appropriate Skill level that is suited for them.

this sounds like a really good (and for what I know) original system. I think you did a great job in creatively finding a solution for what I think it was the most important problem with the previous system: SL attribution and XP ranking was based on games that could be from different and highly heterogeneous SLs (ie. based on a global XP system). Congrats!

As far as we know this is an original system. We designed, created and thoguht it up without any outside influence.
We hope so also so thank you very much!

However if they now just stop completely playing MM games and only play normal or dont play at all? Will these players maintain their SL indefinitely?

Theoretically yes they will. Although other players will affect their SL designation due to each tier being so dynamic so potentially they can both be demoted or promoted after some time due to this. After 92 days statistics are considered so "old" that they are removed. The reason behind this is that if you don't play for that long then there is no way you can comeback and be on teh exact same level of skill as when you stopped. This applies to everything in life just as it applies to DotA.

Will teams in match making games finally be made based on win rate or still on points?

It will be based on points. Although now points will be much more accurate as they are not gained or lost outside each players designated tier as often as previously. this is also another reason for the bash point introduction.
Win rate would only work if all players would only play all their games within their own skill level. Anything else skews statistics for win rate especially far too much to be of a reliable indicator. Win rates instead will determine your placement in each tier.

I hope u wont reset all stats to zero though. I enjoy sl3 games alot and i dont want to pubstomp 75 games(or now even more) again to get up.

Previously answered above

And i have one more question, if someone drops down to a lower sl due to a low win%, what number of games the player needs to make, to get back to the higher level ?

That depends largely on why he was demoted to begin with. If it was because other players around him in his tier got better as well as players in lower tiers moving up and thus forcing him down then he will have to improve his games in the lower tier to get back up.
If he was demoted due to him simply playing badly then the same generally applies until he has reached a win rate high enough to be promoted.
Your promotion depends entirely on how well you perform in your current tier compared to others in that tier as well as right below and right above your tier.

ranking will only be use to attribute players to SLs at the implementation. After that ranking will not be used for that purpose.
there has been some confusing/contradictory statements or interpretations relative to one key aspect: the criteria for promotion/demotion ie. assignment of players to SLs after implementation. Can anyone confirm the criteria? my interpretation is the win rate after each 10 games in the current SL.

The criteria is once a day.
Looking at the last 200 games and/or during the last 92 days of the skill level that you currently are in. as a backup if none of those options are viable then the system will look at the previous 20-50 games of the applicable tier the user has been assigned to and use those.
This means that if you play in a single tier for more than 92 days then get demoted your previous games form that tier will be counted. you will always have some games in a lower tier since you have played there previously to move up a step to begin with. When it applies to being promoted then it is an irrelevant question

3-4 pages of VL and SL5 discussion....

-_- Off topic and irrelevant.
Will be dealt with later. Also it should be dealt with automatically due to the new systems layout. If there is a problem then i will actively find a solution that works better for SL5 specifically as quickly as possible. Feel free to open a "SL5 discussion" thread a couple of weeks after the new SL system is implemented and has become stable.

@xan problem is the skill difference gap between the new sl's is almost nonexisting based on those percenteges.. There will be horrible players in sl4 just like there will in sl1..

Quote

i fully expect emmeran and aussie to take action and alter this new sl system before its implementation

Both of you explain further please.
If i understand this correctly, you guys are afraid that you might get promoted into SL5 marginally and maybe loose the majority of your first 10 games and then get demoted the very next day as a result.
The problem with "allowing" more lenience to new players of a Higher tier like SL5 is that if we do this and let's say count the win rate lower before demotion for the initial 10 games then a player who just barely scraped his way into SL5 will have the opportunity to "ruin" much more games while he is there. the same applies that while he is there and is slightly more "protected" than others who have been there for a longer duration is that they will instead get demoted as new and possibly more deserving players get promoted due to the slot capacity being maxed out. All the meanwhile this marginal player is playing at a much lower level than the others who are in the middle range of SL5 and they as a result are becoming very frustrated by his performance.
if a player truly deserves to be in a tier then he will get placed there. If this is for a longer or a shorter duration is entirely a result of his own performance. Once he gets demoted back down he will have the same chance as before along with all other SL4 players to get promoted just like his promotion will in turn affect all SL5 players chances of being demoted.
This as a whole is only something that affects SL5 though and after more feedback we might, i especially look into some possible changes that only affect SL5. But for the time being it shouldn't be necessary at all. That at least is how this system is designed to work.

ps. got a ditch for rrreading and posting this shit OMG!

  don't ditch!

people that get 'vouched' for sl5 or are alread vouched could be excluded from this 1% pool not to take places up for other worthy players.

We have a solution to this IF it becomes needed after some time. For the moment we won't make any such implementations.

For the record: I don't like this system either. A system based on win% is wrong to me. Keep the old exp system and just remake the levels.

The system bases your tier placement upon your win rate while each game within each tier matches players according to their exp/points and not their win rate.
So i'm unsure if you completely understood the system or if maybe you have missed some details.

Regarding SL5....
All we would need is an active community that is unbiased

er... last word there dude... I wish for unicorns to exist also...
Give it some time. If there is a problem that needs a solution then we will create that solution then.

If i understood OP right, now only MM % will count to promote or demote, which makes sense.

Yes exactly.

But otherwise i agree with nines if the changes come through as they are now, we should host a pvt. league at irc for the best of the players, and use the dlg bots to play.

That shouldn't even be discussed. It is not needed and if it eventually really does become needed then
1: Our SL system isn't working
2: We will create a solution that is much better than some irc crap.

If a player have penalties he will be stuck in a lower skill that will improve his win rate without having bashpoints?

Penalties will not demote your skill level placement but instead just throw you into the dungeon.
Penalty based demotions have been abused for this exact reason in the past as well as currently which is why we changed it now. They also skew statistics horribly in a bad way. Once you get out of the dungeon then you are placed back to the tier you belong according to your skill. Not according to your manners or pc/internet stability reducing the chances that over skilled players can end up with under skilled teammates.

Will players be "evaluated" for promotion demotion every 10 MM games on their current SL after the initial 10? Or will be a general update for everyone at a given time (like there is now, everyday for the XP ranking)

This has also been answered above.






Let the discussions here please be on the System as a whole and to our feedback replies for easier overview.

We want to go live with this system right after the weekend preferably so if you have any input at all then let us know it now please!

As i'm sure there's going to be a ton of you playing Diablo 3 on the release date, but even more of you unable to play it due to pc limitations i thought i would let you guys know that i'll be streaming it from the moment it goes live!

It will be myself and a couple of close friends going all out in a 4 man party grinding our way through the game for 24 hours.

http://www.twitch.tv/team/dotalicious

Make sure you tune in and spread the word!

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This show will be all about the Dota2 scene. What is happening, where it's happening, who it's happening to and why. Up and coming matches, insights in current events, tournaments, roster changes and team developments and achievements.

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